Sunday 14 May 2023

No Pope of Rome

 


No Pope of Rome

Watching Rangers deservedly win the latest derby was an odd experience in some ways. Not because Celtic didn’t turn up and were duly turned over, rather it was the complete lack of away fans in the ground. The traditional gladiatorial challenge off the field was lacking as in days past when both sets of fans tried to win the battle of the songs. Instead, we were treated to an entire stadium filled with home fans who had a chance to show people watching in over 100 countries that they could create an atmosphere to rival that of the past.

In truth, I’d estimate that barely a quarter of the songs sung had anything to do with football. Most worryingly the worst of the bigoted dirges aired seem to be sung by thousands of voices. It’s 2023 and still they persist with songs containing lyrics such as…

‘The only thing that I could say, was f*ck the Pope and the IRA’

‘Oh, no pope of Rome, no chapels to sadden my eyes. No nuns and no priests, no rosary beads, every day is the 12th of July.’

‘We’re up to our knees in Fenian blood…’

I could go on, but you get the picture. It sounded more like a Klan gathering than a top flight football match. These nakedly sectarian songs were joined in turn by the depressingly familiar chants of ‘paedos’ and ‘big Jock knew’ from large sections of a support with seemingly no self-awareness. One has to wonder why the police present at the stadium do nothing as this goes on and why the voices in the media, so shrill about Celtic fans’ chanting about the coronation, remain silent?

Of course, raising such issues often leads to being accused of sour grapes, being a bad loser or being submerged in a tsunami of ‘whataboutery,’ but this goes deeper than footballing rivalry.  This is poisonous stuff our society seems to tolerate. My old man used to say, ‘do you think for a moment if those chants were about Jews or Muslims they’d be tolerated?’ He had a point.

The decent fans  need to put heads above the parapet when required and make the hotter heads consider the damage they inflict on the club the claim to love. It was encouraging to read a thread on a Rangers chat room asking why the FTP, Paedo, Bobby Sands stuff needs to go on in this day and age. One contributor said…

‘You can’t tell me though that the most recognisable Rangers’ anthem (Follow Follow) being sung with ‘f*ck the pope and the Vatican’ in it is in any way a normal situation? The Famine Song- what an utterly needless and spectacular own goal. As if we didn’t f*cking know it would cause bother! The paedo stuff is cringeworthy and embarrassing. People’s lives were wrecked, it’s not a point scoring football chant.’

It’s encouraging to see fans  raising these issues as it is not a pleasant experience when the less enlightened get on your case as some did to the person above. It can be hard to stand up for what you believe but at the end of the day, the only way change will happen is if enough people call out the poison in our midst.

In the grand scheme of things, it is fair to say that Rangers have a bigger problem with this sort of prejudiced chanting than any other club in Scotland. For some, the singing of Irish nationalist songs by Celtic fans is viewed as ‘sectarian.’ Whether you think they are appropriate at a football match or not, they are not sectarian in the any definition of the word. In Scotland though, there has always been a tendency for the media to spin the ‘both as bad as each other’ narrative. We have also recently seen ridiculous headlines about poor behaviour by Rangers fans reported as ‘football fans’ or ‘old firm fans.’

If anything is to be done about the sort of bile we heard at Ibrox on Saturday then it needs a concerted effort by all the interested parties to get together and thrash out what is acceptable and what is not and what sanctions should be used.  The politicians, clubs, police and supporters  need clarity on this as the biggest flaw in the iniquitous ‘Offensive behaviour at Football Act’ was the complete lack of a clear definition of what constitutes a sectarian song. The now repealed Act collapsed under the weight of its own confusing definitions. UEFA closed part of a stand at Ibrox for such nonsense in a European tie but you'd have to wonder if the Scottish football authorities would have the spine or will to do that.

Increasingly ultras groups are leading the singing at games and have added immensely to the atmosphere in the era of all seater stadiums. Groups like the Union Bears may claim they have the right to sing what they want, but freedom of speech has never been unlimited. Hate speech is against the law although it seems it is routinely ignored in the context of Scottish football. Imagine, if you will, thousands of people gathering in any other social context and chanting ‘f*ck the Pope?’ It would be unacceptable and lead to calls for the police to enforce the law. So why is it ignored in a football stadium?

Well done to those Rangers fans who are at last starting the debate on this nonsense among a large section of their support. They will be challenging a deeply ingrained culture amongst many of their fellow supporters and there is such vitriolic feelings among some that they will never voluntarily stop this stuff. The younger fans though need to know that they can support their team, dislike their rivals and create a good atmosphere without resorting to the gutter for their songs. I fear some of their elders may be beyond redemption but the status quo surely isn’t an option. This can’t be ignored forever.

I’ve been watching football in Scotland all of my life and still enjoy its raw passion, petty rivalries and clannish nature, but it’s 2023 and time to put the hate songs where they belong; into the dustbin of history.

28 comments:

  1. The sectarian chants etc. are all perfectly acceptable in modern Scotland by the police ,politicians and the football authorities. The reason i am aware of this is I have been hearing this bile for approx. sixty years and the aforementioned authorities don't!!

    ReplyDelete
  2. Whilst watching the game on sky Ian crocker commented the rangers fans to a man are making a whole lot of noise, although someone perhaps should piont out to him that to a man they were singing up to their knees in people's blood, if broadcasters brush it under the carpet what chance do we have

    ReplyDelete
  3. Welcome to Scotland

    ReplyDelete
  4. The football authorities have a large part to play in this if they would hand out points deduction every time they hear these hate filled chants the fans would stop using them if it was going to cause them from winning a league or cup

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I think you’ll find it’s their players on the park that will stop them winning any trophies 😉

      Delete
  5. I agree with all the above but do think there are some songs creeping in on our own side that need challenging. Roamin in the gloamin has been making a comeback recently (which is comparable to the fck the pope songs) & the super trooper some is just disgusting & has no place at a football match or anywhere else. Easier to call them out when our own house is fully in order.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Agreed & I've called it out on Twitter. The usual abuse from a misguided few & the silent majority with hundreds of likes but keeping their heads down.

      Delete
    2. Hate the Super Trooper shite. In fairness though, it is a small minority.

      Delete
  6. The Celtic board totally ignore the disgraceful songs coming from them maybe if they complained to the SPFL or SFA something might get done about it

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Aye, they will probably get fined or
      points deducted

      Delete
    2. I was referring to Celtic here

      Delete
  7. Been a season ticket holder since 1985 I’m totally fed up listening to our own support the bhoys especially singing ira songs roaming in the gloamin and other songs that that make me cringe .We have loads of Celtic songs that could be sung all through the games.I sit not far from the bhoys and there is no way I’ll be giving that area up to them or the green brigade.They’ve also be spoit with success the behaviour when the Covid league was won was a disgrace.We know about that mob and they’re songs but don’t let us let ourselves down because we don’t care who plays for us and they are still the dinasours from living in the dark ages and will never change

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hard to disagree with any of that. The fact we challenge it & debate it remains a positive but this is a never ending struggle & the good folk need to win.

      Delete
    2. Agree 100%. If you want to sing about the IRA go to some hall and sing to your heart's content. Leave supporting Celtic to the Celtic supporters.

      Delete
  8. I didn’t go to a Catholic school so the roamin in the gloamin really gets to me and I just wonder how many of these supporters actually attend mass on a Sunday .A lot of our legends weren’t Catholics as we all know .We are better than that crowd at debtdome so let’s get to Hampden in the sun and have full celebration of Celtic songs

    ReplyDelete
  9. I wholeheartedly agree, there is a move to sectarian rhetoric in Paradise and it is being peddled by the Bhoys and the GB. There is no point in throwing stones at Sevco whilst we have the equivalent numb nuts in our support. No understanding if Irish history, no understanding of Celtic's history. " Roamin in the gloaming" " We all live in a catholic housing scheme, no proddies to be seen" It's disgusting and endemic amongst our younger supporters. It's a true shame in the real sense of the word.

    ReplyDelete
  10. They will get away with it like everything else they do because the Scottish Football Authorities are scared of them and many of those who contribute to the upkeep of their club meet those from the football authorities as part of the brotherhood and why would they upset their brothers? Ian Maxwell and Neil Doncastor are two people who bring nothing to the table within the game and should be removed along with the guy Petrie and the head of refereeing. Until they stand up to these people others will suffer this bile.

    ReplyDelete
  11. We need to stop our own bile about they’re players and managers that are no longer here .Whether you’re at the game or it’s on tv i makes me so angry to hear these songs .I hate it when people says we’re as bad as each other but we need to get a grip .

    ReplyDelete
  12. I’m from Galway 61 years old follow Celtic home/away/Europe but I’m totally sick of the younger generation of fan’s singing these songs about Ireland and have no idea what went on a lot of them need educating

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I agree, clueless youngsters spouting nonsense. Time they read a book or two and widened up

      Delete
    2. youngster have to learn it from somewhere? Older generation always trying to pass the blame to the younger generation yet it was the old gen that raised the young gen so really its the old gens fault.

      Delete
  13. As you say, we all have a responsibility to drown out those who embarrass our club with certain songs. Super trooper comes to mind. Celtic fans have a wonderful song book to delve into without sinking to hun levels. The rangers songbook on the other hand seems to be much more poisonous. There may well be some in their support who want nothing to do with it in this day and age but, judging by Saturdays offering, the majority seem to revel in it. Won't be holding my breath waiting for it to die out anytime soon HH

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I completely agree but I believe that when these songs are sung but Celtic fans, they are widely reported (ref. 8th of Aug 22 across all media outlets) while the bile by so-called Rangers fans of up to their neck in fenlan blood is never reported on main stream media or papers, why is this.

      Delete
  14. I agree with what the author is saying, but he is kidding himself on if he thinks it's all one way. What about the Green Brigade with their bile. It's disgraceful in this day and age. I've no time for all this sectarian crap, from both sides, and this is coming from a lifetime Rangers fan. I used to go and see Celtic play often in Europe during the sixties, quite simply because they were a great team. Unfortunately the way some of the youngster ones behave (and some older ones) I don't believe it'll ever change in my lifetime.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I don’t think the author suggested it was one way and if you follow him on Twitter , you will see him calling out some of the dumb stuff Celtic fans get involved in. He also said in the article the ‘whataboutery’ would start and he was right. This is about the decent fans on both sides not allowing the idiots to hijack their club.

      Delete
  15. I find it fascinating that at this point where every opportunity is taken to defame Sotland and all its goings on. that the author should point out sectarianism in "scotland" i am vary aware that this is the case with liverpool and Everton. (no mention of this south of the border) does it exist Autrhor??? of course it does. No mention have you made of the rangers fans being that of a high level of loyalism to the "queen and country" ooops sorry king!!.....I have no time for sectarianism because all it does is serve westminster by dividing our beautiful people of a weekend taking all of our passion and focusing it inward instead of that when we are Scotland V England and directing out passion to a more worthwhile objective. Football is one thing politics another but the sooner the good people of scotland realise that catholic and protestant muslim jew and yes scientoligists are just "scottish" the sooner we will free ourselves of westminster. (not the english people) who many are brand new BTW!

    ReplyDelete
  16. I stopped going to Celtic Park back in early 80's. The stadium was full of vile sectarian songs that just do not fit with me. I want to watch football and sing about my team, not about IRA terrorists and abusing the monarchy (which I have no love for) I have been to about 10 games in the last 20 years just to see if things have changed, they have not. Until Celtic get their house in order they cannot claim to be better than the new club. Both sets of "fans" need to realise that what they are singing is criminal in any other country apart from Scotland. The sooner the police start wading in and charging peole the better.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That was a mistake,in the 80's the support for the Irish Republican movement was justified, now it's inevitable that Ireland will be Ireland eventually, so that battle is won. I have no issue with the IRa,if you lived in Derry in the 79s what chance did you hav...none.So calling them terrorists, what does that make the oppressive English? My point is shouting up the rabin this day in age makes us like them and even worse bringing a schism in Christianity in to it, re protestants is the real despicable crap .Parnel, Wolfestone, OBtien of the young Irelanders, Stein, McGrain, Dalglish. They are idiots and palstuc paddies

      Delete